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Forum:YouTube list becoming "dated"?
Basically what the title implies is that the YouTube listing was created because YouTube was and still is the most easily accessible video site on the web. So for the YouTube Song list it was pretty easy just to grab a link and paste it on the page. However, it is nearing 2013 and obviously Vocaloid has grown since then. We now have a bunch of V3s and some of them not even Japanese / English. There are now websites that gather people who have Vocaloids in Korean, Chinese, and Spanish. So I am wondering if the YouTube list should be revamped to be an all-purpose music listing. Based on the existence of NicoVideo, CreCrew and Bilibili etc. I believe we are missing out on a chance to list songs that never get uploaded to YT. Much of what is on YT is largely from Japanese producers and top ranking Vocaloid songs, since YT and NND have a kinship of sorts. I am proposing to either rename the pages or create additional listing pages to included links from the mentioned video sites. And possible other video sites such as DailyMotion and Soundcloud. -- Bunai82 (talk) 06:22, December 24, 2012 (UTC) Comment I think it's a good idea. I suggest going with the revamp idea for the YT lists and allow links to NND and the like. Taboo6938 (talk) 14:47, December 24, 2012 (UTC) If I can get more comments, I will create a template that only requires the video_id number instead of the whole link, it will also slow down on having to clean up the list in case a link has died or when there is extra unneeded text. Since Nico and YouTube are have shown to be the largest suppliers of music, there may have to be separate pages by title. Especially for Miku, who pretty much has a majority of the links on her listing page. -- Bunai82 (talk) 23:24, December 24, 2012 (UTC) But if you add more than just YT links to the page it will grow to the size when it is annoying to scroll all the way down from point A to Z. I asked about one month ago if we could even separate the "Original" songs from the "Covers" section because it was (the page) very long. ~ 5zczurzyca (talk) 00:06, December 25, 2012 (UTC) ~ Where did you request this? The list was done as a 'quickly solution' to let others know about various Vocaloid songs. I am aware that Crypton Vocaloids in particular ended up having the most listings. If you can come up with some names for the lists 'original / cover', that would be nice. Because currently when you type in "Hatsune Miku Songs" it will redirect to "Youtube List/Hatsune Miku Songs". If this idea is encouraged, these redirects will go to a disambig page instead, and will direct people to the various listings and originals/covers. etc -- Bunai82 (talk) 00:57, December 25, 2012 (UTC) 6th comment in KAITO's YT Songs List. It wasn't a request tho, just a question / idea of mine after I've joined the Wiki. Quote: "Also... wouldn't it be better to separate the original songs and cover songs? I mean, create two pages or maybe even three: 1st for original titles, 2nd for all the covers, 3rd for original and covered songs sung by Kaito in english (there are quite a lot)?" Also 2nd comment in Kamui Gakupo's YT Songs List. Quote: "Excuse me, but I've got an idea and I do not know where to ask / talk about it. I was looking at this YT songs list and started thinking about how long it will take to translate all the titles just to put them under the right letter (like 'Yokkora S**' is under 'Y' but after translation it should be under 'G'). Is it a bad idea to make a table like this one (without producers) or perhaps this one (with demo songs). It could save some time - people would be able to throw untranslated titles without making more mess or search for the song's original title if they do not know how it sounds translated... For example if you are looking for 'Byakkoya no musume' and it is translated than you are unable to find it here. Some people are putting new links although the song might be already listed (just translated, thus unnoticed). I'm not sure if it's understandable (my explanation). Anyway, what do you think? We could add songs that are listed on NND exclusively. YT is kinda restricted area imho." I asked many questions like these in Gakupo's/Kiyoteru's/KAITO's pages because I had no clue where and who to ask. I still don't ^^'... Sorry for the trouble. I wonder if it would be possible to make a drop-down-menu-like sections that would remain to be hidden unless clicked (you click on the "A" and all songs starting with "A" would appear) to save up space as much as possible. As for the names... I'm not sure. It would be better to make a clear template first and name it later on, right? YT and NND holds majority of the songs for japanese vocaloids (I dunno about the Engloids) and the two could be separated but what about other sites like Dailymotion, etc.? Should they be gathered on the 3rd page or arranged somewhere on the YT/NND page...? ;/ ~ 5zczurzyca (talk) 01:28, December 25, 2012 (UTC) ~ Okay, now I understand. lol when you get ideas that could effect other article pages as a whole, it is best to post in the forums to make a proposal or bring up the idea using a blog entry. Because unless it is spam or something else of interests, I don't pay attention to comments. And it is possible to simply use a hide/show code between the alphabetical listings if a page appears to be getting too lengthy. I have to see how it loads on the page, because sometimes it can be annoying and also there are certain browsers that may not pick up on the coding. There are also people who turn off java script, so the page would end up showing all the song listings regardless of the coding. As for titling. I was thinking of removing the words "List" "Songs" and simply titling the page with the "Video site/Vocaloid". And depending on how Dailymotion will benefit the listing, it may be a potential separate page or just creating a miscellaneous page like "Assorted blablah/Vocaloid". And just having this miscellaneous page handle various video or audio links from around the internet. However, the issue with that is safety. Also, I have completed the template for this idea. See Template:Song id -- Bunai82 (talk) 06:52, December 26, 2012 (UTC) Comment 2 I'll be moving the pages to their new names, simplifying it down to the "VideoSite/Vocaloid name", and adding the template at the top. -- Bunai82 (talk) 05:30, December 29, 2012 (UTC) (Sorry for late reply) The template is pretty but I thought it will leave some space for the song titles (original in Japanese hiragana/katakana and romaji + english translation). Do you plan to change it later on? (Sorry again if I'm asking for too much) I was working for last few weeks to update KAITO's YT songs list but it will be very hard to sort all the songs names (many still wait for the translation of the title) that's why I'm asking... ^^' ~ 5zczurzyca (talk) 18:12, December 30, 2012 (UTC) ~ The template's title parameter can include anything, the thing is, but the title would be unnecessarily long. So the 'Producer' section can be used to include the original title name while the translated 'or untranslated' title can be the main link. I can edit the document more let people know it is 'optional'. -- Bunai82 (talk) 19:16, December 30, 2012 (UTC) 'eta'Hmm I gotta reduce the linking, so I'll need to eliminate the "Video site/Vocaloid name", and just have 'covers' song page linked from the 'originals' song page. Either that or redirect it.-- Bunai82 (talk) 19:51, December 30, 2012 (UTC) The template's title parameter will not be too long if fixed into a table, right? Like the demo songs. I think 'Producers' section shouldn't be used to any different purpose. It would defeat the purpose of labeling these sections and if used this way the whole template would become pretty messy. I kinda insist for this place to include all variations of songs title. Example: As a new user many times I wanted to post a song with translated title that was already on the list and I didn't knew about it cause the link posted earlier had untranslated title. I want to avoid double/triple-posting. I really believe it would help a lot for those unfamiliar to the whole vocaloid scene. Searching for a particular song seems hard at times. Example: If you are looking for Byakkoya no Musume you can find it translated in a three different ways + romaji + kanji and all this lies scattered through the wiki-pages. And it's still the same song. At first I was confused and this is only one example where there were more. Dunno if I'm the only one with this kind of adventures. I want to sort this thing out first and update all the songs lists after this so I will be 100% sure what to do and what not to ^^'~ 5zczurzyca (talk) 15:24, January 3, 2013 (UTC) ~ :Sorry, didn't notice a posting. :The producer section is just a miscellaneous/extra section now. There is no need for another parameter to include kanji/romaji title because the "Title" and "Extra" section can cover it. The only thing adding another parameter will do is space the title, and that is redundant. -- Bunai82 (talk) 04:43, January 9, 2013 (UTC)